Important Message About Mailing Lists: PLEASE READ

[Dana Mason]

We are finding that there is a lot of duplication occurring between
our Mailing Lists and our Forums. As a result, some people are
having difficulty finding answers to their questions since
information is stored in so many places. REAL Software has decided
to consolidate the Getting Started List with the online Forums. On
Monday, February 12, 2007, the Getting Started List and other mailing
lists will no longer be active. We encourage you to continue your
REALbasic and REAL SQL Server discussions on the Forums.

If you are not presently a member of the forum, please sign up today
at http://forums.realsoftware.com! It’s free to join and there are
lots of topic areas for discussion, like Getting Started, Databases,
Games, etc. We also have platform-specific areas where you can ask
questions or start discussions relative to your platform.

We apologize for any inconvenience this has caused. We understand
that some people prefer an email-based mailing list to an online
forum. However, we feel that consolidating our lists into the online
Forum is the best option for the community.

Thank you for your support.

Dana Mason
REAL Software, Inc.
Marketing Manager
www.realsoftware.com

[Murray Lesser]

Dear Dana--

Your registration URL doesn't work, because you hung an exclamation mark on it.

I made it work by removing the mark, but decided not to sign up at the moment.

Murray

Post by Dana Mason
We are finding that there is a lot of duplication occurring between
our Mailing Lists and our Forums. As a result, some people are
having difficulty finding answers to their questions since
information is stored in so many places. REAL Software has decided
to consolidate the Getting Started List with the online Forums. On
Monday, February 12, 2007, the Getting Started List and other
mailing lists will no longer be active. We encourage you to
continue your REALbasic and REAL SQL Server discussions on the
Forums.
If you are not presently a member of the forum, please sign up today
at http://forums.realsoftware.com! It's free to join and there are
lots of topic areas for discussion, like Getting Started, Databases,
Games, etc. We also have platform-specific areas where you can ask
questions or start discussions relative to your platform.
We apologize for any inconvenience this has caused. We understand
that some people prefer an email-based mailing list to an online
forum. However, we feel that consolidating our lists into the
online Forum is the best option for the community.
Thank you for your support.
Dana Mason
REAL Software, Inc.
Marketing Manager
www.realsoftware.com
_______________________________________________
<http://www.realsoftware.com/support/listmanager/>
<http://support.realsoftware.com/listarchives/lists.html>

[Dixon, Tom]

I am a member of the mailing list because I despise forums! This is not
a welcome change in my book.

-----Original Message-----
Behalf Of Dana Mason
Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 10:12 AM
Subject: Important Message About Mailing Lists: PLEASE READ
We are finding that there is a lot of duplication occurring
between our Mailing Lists and our Forums. As a result, some
people are having difficulty finding answers to their
questions since information is stored in so many places.
REAL Software has decided to consolidate the Getting Started
List with the online Forums. On Monday, February 12, 2007,
the Getting Started List and other mailing lists will no
longer be active. We encourage you to continue your
REALbasic and REAL SQL Server discussions on the Forums.
If you are not presently a member of the forum, please sign
up today at http://forums.realsoftware.com! It's free to
join and there are lots of topic areas for discussion, like
Getting Started, Databases, Games, etc. We also have
platform-specific areas where you can ask questions or start
discussions relative to your platform.
We apologize for any inconvenience this has caused. We
understand that some people prefer an email-based mailing
list to an online forum. However, we feel that consolidating
our lists into the online Forum is the best option for the community.
Thank you for your support.
Dana Mason
REAL Software, Inc.
Marketing Manager
www.realsoftware.com

[Norman Palardy]

Post by Dixon, Tom
I am a member of the mailing list because I despise forums! This is not
a welcome change in my book.

The community has started a new alternate mailing list
Subscribe at <mailto:rblist-***@declaresub.com>

[RBNUBE]

Anyone having problems subscribing to the new list?

[Charles Yeomans]

If you're having trouble, try contacting the list admin.

Charles Yeomans

Post by RBNUBE
Anyone having problems subscribing to the new list?

[RBNUBE]

Wouldn't that be you?

[Charles Yeomans]

Indeed it would. What's the problem?

Charles

Post by RBNUBE
Wouldn't that be you?
_______________________________________________
REAL Software has decided to consolidate this mailing list with the
online Forums. On Monday, February 12, 2007, this mailing list
will no longer be active. We encourage you to continue your
REALbasic and REAL SQL Server discussions on the Forums. If you
are not presently a member of the forum, please sign up today at
<http://forums.realsoftware.com>.

[Jay Rimalrick]

Will the archives still be online?





____________________________________________________________________________________
Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels
in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit.
http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097

[Giovanni]

yes thats the idea...

Post by Jay Rimalrick
Will the archives still be online?
____________________________________________________________________________________
Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels
in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit.
http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097
_______________________________________________
REAL Software has decided to consolidate this mailing list with the online Forums. On Monday, February 12, 2007, this mailing list will no longer be active. We encourage you to continue your REALbasic and REAL SQL Server discussions on the Forums. If you are not presently a member of the forum, please sign up today at <http://forums.realsoftware.com>.

[Chip G.]

Post by Dixon, Tom
I am a member of the mailing list because I despise forums! This is
not a welcome change in my book.

Let me elucidate why I don't like web-based forums. How do you like
to receive your newspaper? Do you go to the store to pick it up, or
have it delivered to your doorstep/mailbox? I have mine at the
mailbox. I don't want to have to make a superfluous stop on the way
to/from work. I want the content delivery folks put it where I need it.

I like news delivered to me (mailing lists). I hate having to go get
it. How do I know when there is news worth reading? No way to know
unless (a) it is delivered to me or (b) I go check. Give me (a) or
give me death. Ok, a little extreme. But I guarantee that I will not
join this forum, much as I have avoided them in other places. If Real
Software proceeds with plans to dismantle this list, it will mean
that I no longer have any good outlet for finding answers. I will
either have to email them directly for an answer or go without. If I
go without answers I will get frustrated and swap to a product with
better support. These are the facts as I see them. No hate, no
discontent, just reality. I hope my thoughts do not fall on deaf ears.

Thanks for your time,


-- Chip

[Douglas Neale]

Why don't we start a Yahoo group to do exactly the same thing?

All it needs is someone willing to be nominated as the moderator.
Regards,
Douglas Neale

[Charles Yeomans]

Because we have already set up a preliminary mailing list. You can
subscribe by sending an e-mail to rblist-***@declareSub.com .


Charles Yeomans

Post by Douglas Neale
Why don't we start a Yahoo group to do exactly the same thing?
All it needs is someone willing to be nominated as the moderator.
Regards,
Douglas Neale
_______________________________________________
REAL Software has decided to consolidate this mailing list with the
online Forums. On Monday, February 12, 2007, this mailing list
will no longer be active. We encourage you to continue your
REALbasic and REAL SQL Server discussions on the Forums. If you
are not presently a member of the forum, please sign up today at
<http://forums.realsoftware.com>.

[Kirk Gray]

And because nobody wants the yahoo ads added to every post.


On Feb 7, 2007, at 9:13 AM, Charles Yeomans wrote:

Because we have already set up a preliminary mailing list. You can
subscribe by sending an e-mail to rblist-***@declareSub.com .


Charles Yeomans

Post by Douglas Neale
Why don't we start a Yahoo group to do exactly the same thing?
All it needs is someone willing to be nominated as the moderator.
Regards,
Douglas Neale
_______________________________________________
REAL Software has decided to consolidate this mailing list with the
online Forums. On Monday, February 12, 2007, this mailing list
will no longer be active. We encourage you to continue your
REALbasic and REAL SQL Server discussions on the Forums. If you
are not presently a member of the forum, please sign up today at
<http://forums.realsoftware.com>.

_______________________________________________
Unsubscribe:
<gettingstarted-***@lists.realsoftware.com>

REAL Software has decided to consolidate this mailing list with the
online Forums. On Monday, February 12, 2007, this mailing list will
no longer be active. We encourage you to continue your REALbasic and
REAL SQL Server discussions on the Forums. If you are not presently
a member of the forum, please sign up today at <http://
forums.realsoftware.com>.

[Octave Julien]

Dear list,

I think the fate of this mailling list should be debated by its users.
I'm surprised Real Software took the initiative to close it without
asking for our opinion first. And I'd like to kindly ask Dana Mason on
which grounds they "feel that consolidating our lists into the online
Forum is the best option for the community."

With forums, information is hard to find because It is scattered in
multiple messages. And this is just hell if you don't have a fast
internet connection.

Whereas with e-mails, you can search your inbox very easily and, more
important, you can see the daily stream of questions, answers and tips.
I know I won't be able to check multiple topics in the forums every
day. It will make my learning of RealBasic considerably slower, and I
won't be able to give some help when I could.

Surely, some people will prefer forums and I'm sure they have many good
reasons to do so. Indeed, forums and our mailing list are two
complementary tools for Real Basic users. Maybe Real Software could
just fill the gap by adding searchable archives of this mailing list on
their website. Maybe we should consider merging the different mailing
lists into one. I've never read the other ones. I guess the number of
messages is less important there, and there is a point in transferring
their content to a forum.

But the Getting Started mailing list is like your newspaper lying next
to your morning coffee. It's ready, just waiting for you. No need to
dig into a forum to ask for help or to give some.

Does my concern echo yours ? If so, we should think about petitionning
RealSoftware to preserve the mailing list. And if it is unsuccesfull,
we could set up another mailing list.
Obviously, that wouldn't be the best solution. I completely understand
and actualy share Real people's concern about scaterred and duplicated
information. But I would argue that two places for discussion, one
online forum and one mailing-list, make a good compromise. What do you
think ?


Octave

Post by Dana Mason
We are finding that there is a lot of duplication occurring between
our Mailing Lists and our Forums. As a result, some people are having
difficulty finding answers to their questions since information is
stored in so many places. REAL Software has decided to consolidate
the Getting Started List with the online Forums. On Monday, February
12, 2007, the Getting Started List and other mailing lists will no
longer be active. We encourage you to continue your REALbasic and
REAL SQL Server discussions on the Forums.
If you are not presently a member of the forum, please sign up today
at http://forums.realsoftware.com! It’s free to join and there are
lots of topic areas for discussion, like Getting Started, Databases,
Games, etc. We also have platform-specific areas where you can ask
questions or start discussions relative to your platform.
We apologize for any inconvenience this has caused. We understand
that some people prefer an email-based mailing list to an online
forum. However, we feel that consolidating our lists into the online
Forum is the best option for the community.
Thank you for your support.
Dana Mason
REAL Software, Inc.
Marketing Manager
www.realsoftware.com
_______________________________________________
<http://www.realsoftware.com/support/listmanager/>
<http://support.realsoftware.com/listarchives/lists.html>

[David DelMonte]

I don't post often, but I absolutely must on this. I will never go to
fora. But I read every message that gets sent on this list. Email is
my window to this kind of knowledge, not browsing through a dozen
websites - I just don't have the time.

Please reconsider..

Petition anyone?

David

Post by Octave Julien
Dear list,
I think the fate of this mailling list should be debated by its
users. I'm surprised Real Software took the initiative to close it
without asking for our opinion first. And I'd like to kindly ask
Dana Mason on which grounds they "feel that consolidating our lists
into the online Forum is the best option for the community."
With forums, information is hard to find because It is scattered in
multiple messages. And this is just hell if you don't have a fast
internet connection.
Whereas with e-mails, you can search your inbox very easily and,
more important, you can see the daily stream of questions, answers
and tips. I know I won't be able to check multiple topics in the
forums every day. It will make my learning of RealBasic
considerably slower, and I won't be able to give some help when I
could.
Surely, some people will prefer forums and I'm sure they have many
good reasons to do so. Indeed, forums and our mailing list are two
complementary tools for Real Basic users. Maybe Real Software could
just fill the gap by adding searchable archives of this mailing
list on their website. Maybe we should consider merging the
different mailing lists into one. I've never read the other ones. I
guess the number of messages is less important there, and there is
a point in transferring their content to a forum.
But the Getting Started mailing list is like your newspaper lying
next to your morning coffee. It's ready, just waiting for you. No
need to dig into a forum to ask for help or to give some.
Does my concern echo yours ? If so, we should think about
petitionning RealSoftware to preserve the mailing list. And if it
is unsuccesfull, we could set up another mailing list.
Obviously, that wouldn't be the best solution. I completely
understand and actualy share Real people's concern about scaterred
and duplicated information. But I would argue that two places for
discussion, one online forum and one mailing-list, make a good
compromise. What do you think ?
Octave

Post by Dana Mason
We are finding that there is a lot of duplication occurring
between our Mailing Lists and our Forums. As a result, some
people are having difficulty finding answers to their questions
since information is stored in so many places. REAL Software has
decided to consolidate the Getting Started List with the online
Forums. On Monday, February 12, 2007, the Getting Started List
and other mailing lists will no longer be active. We encourage
you to continue your REALbasic and REAL SQL Server discussions on
the Forums.
If you are not presently a member of the forum, please sign up
today at http://forums.realsoftware.com! It’s free to join and
there are lots of topic areas for discussion, like Getting
Started, Databases, Games, etc. We also have platform-specific
areas where you can ask questions or start discussions relative to
your platform.
We apologize for any inconvenience this has caused. We understand
that some people prefer an email-based mailing list to an online
forum. However, we feel that consolidating our lists into the
online Forum is the best option for the community.
Thank you for your support.
Dana Mason
REAL Software, Inc.
Marketing Manager
www.realsoftware.com
_______________________________________________
<http://www.realsoftware.com/support/listmanager/>
<http://support.realsoftware.com/listarchives/lists.html>

_______________________________________________
REAL Software has decided to consolidate this mailing list with the
online Forums. On Monday, February 12, 2007, this mailing list
will no longer be active. We encourage you to continue your
REALbasic and REAL SQL Server discussions on the Forums. If you
are not presently a member of the forum, please sign up today at
<http://forums.realsoftware.com>.

[Norman Palardy]

Post by David DelMonte
I don't post often, but I absolutely must on this. I will never go
to fora. But I read every message that gets sent on this list.
Email is my window to this kind of knowledge, not browsing through
a dozen websites - I just don't have the time.
Please reconsider..
Petition anyone?

DONE

http://forums.realsoftware.com/viewtopic.php?p=60236

(You have to love the irony)

[David DelMonte]

Norman, how do you vote?

David

Post by Norman Palardy

Post by David DelMonte
I don't post often, but I absolutely must on this. I will never go
to fora. But I read every message that gets sent on this list.
Email is my window to this kind of knowledge, not browsing through
a dozen websites - I just don't have the time.
Please reconsider..
Petition anyone?

DONE
http://forums.realsoftware.com/viewtopic.php?p=60236
(You have to love the irony)
_______________________________________________
REAL Software has decided to consolidate this mailing list with the
online Forums. On Monday, February 12, 2007, this mailing list
will no longer be active. We encourage you to continue your
REALbasic and REAL SQL Server discussions on the Forums. If you
are not presently a member of the forum, please sign up today at
<http://forums.realsoftware.com>.

[Norman Palardy]

Post by David DelMonte
Norman, how do you vote?
David

Oh yeah ... you have to register as a member to vote ...

[Mathieu Langlois]

This is a bad idea they'll use this against us, it's a lose-lose
situation. If a lot of people register to the forum to vote yes,
they'll use the big surge of new users to say "see we had a big
migration from the lists to the forum". If we do nothing, all the
forum users vote no and they'll say "see the community has spoken they
agree with us".

Math

Post by Norman Palardy
Oh yeah ... you have to register as a member to vote ...

[Norman Palardy]

Post by Mathieu Langlois
This is a bad idea they'll use this against us, it's a lose-lose
situation. If a lot of people register to the forum to vote yes,
they'll use the big surge of new users to say "see we had a big
migration from the lists to the forum". If we do nothing, all the
forum users vote no and they'll say "see the community has spoken they
agree with us".

Go vote , join the new mailing list and be done

[Octave Julien]

Norman,

I will gladly join your new mailing list if this one disappears.
However, I think we can wait until next monday to see if people at
RealSoftware change their mind. That means we should keep posting on
this mailing list for now.

Octave

P.S. : I'm writing and voting on the forum.
P.S. : Has anyone noticed that Gordon was supposed to be back today.
Lucky guy ! All this fuss has diverted the general attention from him
and his ill-fated auto-reply. :-)

Post by Norman Palardy

Post by Mathieu Langlois
This is a bad idea they'll use this against us, it's a lose-lose
situation. If a lot of people register to the forum to vote yes,
they'll use the big surge of new users to say "see we had a big
migration from the lists to the forum". If we do nothing, all the
forum users vote no and they'll say "see the community has spoken they
agree with us".

Go vote , join the new mailing list and be done
_______________________________________________
REAL Software has decided to consolidate this mailing list with the
online Forums. On Monday, February 12, 2007, this mailing list will
no longer be active. We encourage you to continue your REALbasic and
REAL SQL Server discussions on the Forums. If you are not presently a
member of the forum, please sign up today at
<http://forums.realsoftware.com>.

[RBNUBE]

I've already joined the new list...at least I think I have. I haven't
gotten a response yet...

As far as waiting on RB to change their minds on anything once they've
already set things in motion: I'm fairly confident that we wouldn't be
purchasing 'subscriptions' to their software if we could change their minds.



-----Original Message-----
From: gettingstarted-***@lists.realsoftware.com
[mailto:gettingstarted-***@lists.realsoftware.com] On Behalf Of Octave
Julien
Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 4:37 PM
To: Getting Started
Subject: Re: Debate About Mailing Lists: PLEASE REACT !


Norman,

I will gladly join your new mailing list if this one disappears.
However, I think we can wait until next monday to see if people at
RealSoftware change their mind. That means we should keep posting on
this mailing list for now.

Octave

P.S. : I'm writing and voting on the forum.
P.S. : Has anyone noticed that Gordon was supposed to be back today.
Lucky guy ! All this fuss has diverted the general attention from him
and his ill-fated auto-reply. :-)

Post by Norman Palardy

Post by Mathieu Langlois
This is a bad idea they'll use this against us, it's a lose-lose
situation. If a lot of people register to the forum to vote yes,
they'll use the big surge of new users to say "see we had a big
migration from the lists to the forum". If we do nothing, all the
forum users vote no and they'll say "see the community has spoken
they agree with us".

Go vote , join the new mailing list and be done
_______________________________________________
REAL Software has decided to consolidate this mailing list with the
online Forums. On Monday, February 12, 2007, this mailing list will
no longer be active. We encourage you to continue your REALbasic and
REAL SQL Server discussions on the Forums. If you are not presently a
member of the forum, please sign up today at
<http://forums.realsoftware.com>.

_______________________________________________
Unsubscribe:
<gettingstarted-***@lists.realsoftware.com>

REAL Software has decided to consolidate this mailing list with the online
Forums. On Monday, February 12, 2007, this mailing list will no longer be
active. We encourage you to continue your REALbasic and REAL SQL Server
discussions on the Forums. If you are not presently a member of the forum,
please sign up today at <http://forums.realsoftware.com>.

[RBNUBE]

Two more things that blow about forums:
1) Upgrading the forum software of causes data loss or incompatibility
issues.
2) When the forum database explodes, it's a bad day....hopefully they're
backing up :)

[Bill Marcy]

Math,

Have a little faith, the people at REAL are not some faceless
entity, they really do have our best interests at heart. They are
good people doing what they think is best.
Bill

Post by Mathieu Langlois
This is a bad idea they'll use this against us, it's a lose-lose
situation. If a lot of people register to the forum to vote yes,
they'll use the big surge of new users to say "see we had a big
migration from the lists to the forum". If we do nothing, all the
forum users vote no and they'll say "see the community has spoken they
agree with us".
Math

Post by Norman Palardy
Oh yeah ... you have to register as a member to vote ...

_______________________________________________
REAL Software has decided to consolidate this mailing list with the
online Forums. On Monday, February 12, 2007, this mailing list
will no longer be active. We encourage you to continue your
REALbasic and REAL SQL Server discussions on the Forums. If you
are not presently a member of the forum, please sign up today at
<http://forums.realsoftware.com>.

[Sascha Schneppmueller]

Post by Bill Marcy
Have a little faith, the people at REAL are not some faceless
entity, they really do have our best interests at heart. They are
good people doing what they think is best.

Amen!

Sorry, but i could'nt resist...

[Norman Palardy]

Post by Bill Marcy
Math,
Have a little faith, the people at REAL are not some faceless
entity, they really do have our best interests at heart. They are
good people doing what they think is best.
Bill

Why would they not ask what people dislike about the forums first and
fix those things where they could ?

[Bill Marcy]

I would gather, that like most things, it is an evolutionary
process. I prefer to believe the best about people, though I guess,
in the end, only time will tell.

Post by Norman Palardy

Post by Bill Marcy
Math,
Have a little faith, the people at REAL are not some faceless
entity, they really do have our best interests at heart. They are
good people doing what they think is best.
Bill

Why would they not ask what people dislike about the forums first
and fix those things where they could ?
_______________________________________________
REAL Software has decided to consolidate this mailing list with the
online Forums. On Monday, February 12, 2007, this mailing list
will no longer be active. We encourage you to continue your
REALbasic and REAL SQL Server discussions on the Forums. If you
are not presently a member of the forum, please sign up today at
<http://forums.realsoftware.com>.

[Norman Palardy]

Post by Bill Marcy
I would gather, that like most things, it is an evolutionary
process. I prefer to believe the best about people, though I
guess, in the end, only time will tell.

Just seems bass ackwards to say "We're closing the list and we
promise to make the forums better so you'll use them"

At this point it's just generate an incredible amount of ill will
among all the list members which really wasn't necessary.

And there are a few people saying that RB without the mailing list
means RB is dead for them.

Not quite what I'd guess they were hoping for in any event

But then what do I know I'm just a programmer ;)

[Bill Marcy]

Man, I do not know. I do know the guys at REAL software and every
single one of them are decent people. I am willing to wait and see
and hope that their plans are workable and acceptable tothe majority
of people here. Everyone needs to take a deep breath and trust that
their friends are doing the best they can. No?

Post by Norman Palardy

Post by Bill Marcy
I would gather, that like most things, it is an evolutionary
process. I prefer to believe the best about people, though I
guess, in the end, only time will tell.

Just seems bass ackwards to say "We're closing the list and we
promise to make the forums better so you'll use them"
At this point it's just generate an incredible amount of ill will
among all the list members which really wasn't necessary.
And there are a few people saying that RB without the mailing list
means RB is dead for them.
Not quite what I'd guess they were hoping for in any event
But then what do I know I'm just a programmer ;)

[Giovanni]

I agree, but this morning I got an email saying that the number one
resource is closing because there are duplicates( by the way, duplicates
exist on the forum as well, you just cant always find them because they
are not as easy to navigate!!!).

I agree that we should wait and see, but we should wait and see while
working alternative venues.

I also like RS, but this is not even funny. Normally there is a
transition period and a poll to find out what the implications of such
decisions will be. RS did not ask us, they just decided. This is not a
free product, we are paying for this. We have 6 licenses and most of
them are pro versions.

So, no!!! The response they are getting by some quality people here on
the list can be equated by the decision they are making and they way
they approached it.

Post by Bill Marcy
Man, I do not know. I do know the guys at REAL software and every
single one of them are decent people. I am willing to wait and see
and hope that their plans are workable and acceptable tothe majority
of people here. Everyone needs to take a deep breath and trust that
their friends are doing the best they can. No?

Post by Norman Palardy

Post by Bill Marcy
I would gather, that like most things, it is an evolutionary
process. I prefer to believe the best about people, though I guess,
in the end, only time will tell.

Just seems bass ackwards to say "We're closing the list and we
promise to make the forums better so you'll use them"
At this point it's just generate an incredible amount of ill will
among all the list members which really wasn't necessary.
And there are a few people saying that RB without the mailing list
means RB is dead for them.
Not quite what I'd guess they were hoping for in any event
But then what do I know I'm just a programmer ;)

_______________________________________________
REAL Software has decided to consolidate this mailing list with the
online Forums. On Monday, February 12, 2007, this mailing list will
no longer be active. We encourage you to continue your REALbasic and
REAL SQL Server discussions on the Forums. If you are not presently a
member of the forum, please sign up today at
<http://forums.realsoftware.com>.

[Bill Marcy]

I don't know. Both sides make valid points. But this is the one
thing that stands out for me, REAL is saying that they lost business
because of the recent debacle with the autoresponder, not being able
to send out keys and such (I am glad I wasn't waiting on a key, I
would be rather P.O'ed). I gather you are saying that they need to
work on their tact. <shrug>, yur probably rght, but try to think of
them doing what they think is best, as opposed to them doing
something just to screw with the rest of us, makes it go down a bit
easier <s>.

Post by Giovanni
I agree, but this morning I got an email saying that the number one
resource is closing because there are duplicates( by the way,
duplicates exist on the forum as well, you just cant always find
them because they are not as easy to navigate!!!).
I agree that we should wait and see, but we should wait and see
while working alternative venues.
I also like RS, but this is not even funny. Normally there is a
transition period and a poll to find out what the implications of
such decisions will be. RS did not ask us, they just decided. This
is not a free product, we are paying for this. We have 6 licenses
and most of them are pro versions.
So, no!!! The response they are getting by some quality people here
on the list can be equated by the decision they are making and they
way they approached it.

Post by Bill Marcy
Man, I do not know. I do know the guys at REAL software and every
single one of them are decent people. I am willing to wait and
see and hope that their plans are workable and acceptable tothe
majority of people here. Everyone needs to take a deep breath and
trust that their friends are doing the best they can. No?

Post by Norman Palardy

Post by Bill Marcy
I would gather, that like most things, it is an evolutionary
process. I prefer to believe the best about people, though I
guess, in the end, only time will tell.

Just seems bass ackwards to say "We're closing the list and we
promise to make the forums better so you'll use them"
At this point it's just generate an incredible amount of ill will
among all the list members which really wasn't necessary.
And there are a few people saying that RB without the mailing
list means RB is dead for them.
Not quite what I'd guess they were hoping for in any event
But then what do I know I'm just a programmer ;)

[Giovanni]

Bill "blessed are the peace makers" and I appreciate your stance. But
honestly, your stance is not helping.

People, including me, are not moving to the forums. As simple as that.

RS is doing what they think is best, now some are doing what they think
is best. The only thing is, what RS is doing, is not what the community
wants or will be doing.

Post by Bill Marcy
I don't know. Both sides make valid points. But this is the one
thing that stands out for me, REAL is saying that they lost business
because of the recent debacle with the autoresponder, not being able
to send out keys and such (I am glad I wasn't waiting on a key, I
would be rather P.O'ed). I gather you are saying that they need to
work on their tact. <shrug>, yur probably rght, but try to think of
them doing what they think is best, as opposed to them doing something
just to screw with the rest of us, makes it go down a bit easier <s>.

Post by Giovanni
I agree, but this morning I got an email saying that the number one
resource is closing because there are duplicates( by the way,
duplicates exist on the forum as well, you just cant always find them
because they are not as easy to navigate!!!).
I agree that we should wait and see, but we should wait and see while
working alternative venues.
I also like RS, but this is not even funny. Normally there is a
transition period and a poll to find out what the implications of
such decisions will be. RS did not ask us, they just decided. This is
not a free product, we are paying for this. We have 6 licenses and
most of them are pro versions.
So, no!!! The response they are getting by some quality people here
on the list can be equated by the decision they are making and they
way they approached it.

Post by Bill Marcy
Man, I do not know. I do know the guys at REAL software and every
single one of them are decent people. I am willing to wait and see
and hope that their plans are workable and acceptable tothe majority
of people here. Everyone needs to take a deep breath and trust that
their friends are doing the best they can. No?

Post by Norman Palardy

Post by Bill Marcy
I would gather, that like most things, it is an evolutionary
process. I prefer to believe the best about people, though I
guess, in the end, only time will tell.

Just seems bass ackwards to say "We're closing the list and we
promise to make the forums better so you'll use them"
At this point it's just generate an incredible amount of ill will
among all the list members which really wasn't necessary.
And there are a few people saying that RB without the mailing list
means RB is dead for them.
Not quite what I'd guess they were hoping for in any event
But then what do I know I'm just a programmer ;)

_______________________________________________
REAL Software has decided to consolidate this mailing list with the
online Forums. On Monday, February 12, 2007, this mailing list will
no longer be active. We encourage you to continue your REALbasic and
REAL SQL Server discussions on the Forums. If you are not presently a
member of the forum, please sign up today at
<http://forums.realsoftware.com>.

[Tristan]

I have to say... the mailing list is much more convenient for me...

I also have very slow internet so the text-only thing about the email
sysyem is a real plus.

- Tristan Bellman-Greenwood
10101 Software
http://homepage.mac.com/susannone/10101software/

Post by Giovanni
Bill "blessed are the peace makers" and I appreciate your stance.
But honestly, your stance is not helping.
People, including me, are not moving to the forums. As simple as that.
RS is doing what they think is best, now some are doing what they
think is best. The only thing is, what RS is doing, is not what the
community wants or will be doing.

Post by Bill Marcy
I don't know. Both sides make valid points. But this is the one
thing that stands out for me, REAL is saying that they lost
business because of the recent debacle with the autoresponder,
not being able to send out keys and such (I am glad I wasn't
waiting on a key, I would be rather P.O'ed). I gather you are
saying that they need to work on their tact. <shrug>, yur probably
rght, but try to think of them doing what they think is best, as
opposed to them doing something just to screw with the rest of us,
makes it go down a bit easier <s>.

Post by Giovanni
I agree, but this morning I got an email saying that the number
one resource is closing because there are duplicates( by the way,
duplicates exist on the forum as well, you just cant always find
them because they are not as easy to navigate!!!).
I agree that we should wait and see, but we should wait and see
while working alternative venues.
I also like RS, but this is not even funny. Normally there is a
transition period and a poll to find out what the implications of
such decisions will be. RS did not ask us, they just decided.
This is not a free product, we are paying for this. We have 6
licenses and most of them are pro versions.
So, no!!! The response they are getting by some quality people
here on the list can be equated by the decision they are making
and they way they approached it.

Post by Bill Marcy
Man, I do not know. I do know the guys at REAL software and
every single one of them are decent people. I am willing to
wait and see and hope that their plans are workable and
acceptable tothe majority of people here. Everyone needs to
take a deep breath and trust that their friends are doing the
best they can. No?

Post by Norman Palardy

Post by Bill Marcy
I would gather, that like most things, it is an evolutionary
process. I prefer to believe the best about people, though I
guess, in the end, only time will tell.

Just seems bass ackwards to say "We're closing the list and we
promise to make the forums better so you'll use them"
At this point it's just generate an incredible amount of ill
will among all the list members which really wasn't necessary.
And there are a few people saying that RB without the mailing
list means RB is dead for them.
Not quite what I'd guess they were hoping for in any event
But then what do I know I'm just a programmer ;)

_______________________________________________
REAL Software has decided to consolidate this mailing list with
the online Forums. On Monday, February 12, 2007, this mailing
list will no longer be active. We encourage you to continue your
REALbasic and REAL SQL Server discussions on the Forums. If you
are not presently a member of the forum, please sign up today at
<http://forums.realsoftware.com>.

_______________________________________________
REAL Software has decided to consolidate this mailing list with the
online Forums. On Monday, February 12, 2007, this mailing list
will no longer be active. We encourage you to continue your
REALbasic and REAL SQL Server discussions on the Forums. If you
are not presently a member of the forum, please sign up today at
<http://forums.realsoftware.com>.

[Bill Marcy]

I don't know Giovanni, there are 3687 members on the forums (Yes, I
know about everyone who registered to vote), and about 100 members
here? It seems tome most people have already moved to the forums.
Time will tell about the rest.

Post by Giovanni
Bill "blessed are the peace makers" and I appreciate your stance.
But honestly, your stance is not helping.
People, including me, are not moving to the forums. As simple as that.
RS is doing what they think is best, now some are doing what they
think is best. The only thing is, what RS is doing, is not what the
community wants or will be doing.

Post by Bill Marcy
I don't know. Both sides make valid points. But this is the one
thing that stands out for me, REAL is saying that they lost
business because of the recent debacle with the autoresponder,
not being able to send out keys and such (I am glad I wasn't
waiting on a key, I would be rather P.O'ed). I gather you are
saying that they need to work on their tact. <shrug>, yur probably
rght, but try to think of them doing what they think is best, as
opposed to them doing something just to screw with the rest of us,
makes it go down a bit easier <s>.

[Giovanni]

I dont see how the mailing lists caused them to loose any money.

Post by Bill Marcy
I don't know. Both sides make valid points. But this is the one
thing that stands out for me, REAL is saying that they lost business
because of the recent debacle with the autoresponder, not being able
to send out keys and such (I am glad I wasn't waiting on a key, I
would be rather P.O'ed). I gather you are saying that they need to
work on their tact. <shrug>, yur probably rght, but try to think of
them doing what they think is best, as opposed to them doing something
just to screw with the rest of us, makes it go down a bit easier <s>.

Post by Giovanni
I agree, but this morning I got an email saying that the number one
resource is closing because there are duplicates( by the way,
duplicates exist on the forum as well, you just cant always find them
because they are not as easy to navigate!!!).
I agree that we should wait and see, but we should wait and see while
working alternative venues.
I also like RS, but this is not even funny. Normally there is a
transition period and a poll to find out what the implications of
such decisions will be. RS did not ask us, they just decided. This is
not a free product, we are paying for this. We have 6 licenses and
most of them are pro versions.
So, no!!! The response they are getting by some quality people here
on the list can be equated by the decision they are making and they
way they approached it.

Post by Bill Marcy
Man, I do not know. I do know the guys at REAL software and every
single one of them are decent people. I am willing to wait and see
and hope that their plans are workable and acceptable tothe majority
of people here. Everyone needs to take a deep breath and trust that
their friends are doing the best they can. No?

Post by Norman Palardy

Post by Bill Marcy
I would gather, that like most things, it is an evolutionary
process. I prefer to believe the best about people, though I
guess, in the end, only time will tell.

Just seems bass ackwards to say "We're closing the list and we
promise to make the forums better so you'll use them"
At this point it's just generate an incredible amount of ill will
among all the list members which really wasn't necessary.
And there are a few people saying that RB without the mailing list
means RB is dead for them.
Not quite what I'd guess they were hoping for in any event
But then what do I know I'm just a programmer ;)

_______________________________________________
REAL Software has decided to consolidate this mailing list with the
online Forums. On Monday, February 12, 2007, this mailing list will
no longer be active. We encourage you to continue your REALbasic and
REAL SQL Server discussions on the Forums. If you are not presently a
member of the forum, please sign up today at
<http://forums.realsoftware.com>.

[Norman Palardy]

Post by Bill Marcy
Man, I do not know. I do know the guys at REAL software and every
single one of them are decent people.

No one has suggested they aren't

Post by Bill Marcy
I am willing to wait and see and hope that their plans are workable
and acceptable tothe majority of people here. Everyone needs to
take a deep breath and trust that their friends are doing the best
they can. No?

Been relying on that for about 10 years.
They've handled it in a way that they get beaten up yet again. They
must have some kind of masochistic streak.
While I'm willing to cut them a little slack I have to admit that
"trust me" or "trust us" is wearing very very thin.
So I hedge my bets.

[Bill Marcy]

I hear you Norman. I like the gateway idea from the NUG, I have been
toying for months with a front end to the newsgroups that allow a
different display and am talking with another user about that kind of
front end. I still have faith in the guys, I hope that these
conversations don't devolve into name calling and the such. I hate
it when friends bicker <s>.

Post by Norman Palardy

Post by Bill Marcy
Man, I do not know. I do know the guys at REAL software and every
single one of them are decent people.

No one has suggested they aren't

Post by Bill Marcy
I am willing to wait and see and hope that their plans are
workable and acceptable tothe majority of people here. Everyone
needs to take a deep breath and trust that their friends are doing
the best they can. No?

Been relying on that for about 10 years.
They've handled it in a way that they get beaten up yet again. They
must have some kind of masochistic streak.
While I'm willing to cut them a little slack I have to admit that
"trust me" or "trust us" is wearing very very thin.
So I hedge my bets.

[Norman Palardy]

Post by Bill Marcy
I hear you Norman. I like the gateway idea from the NUG, I have
been toying for months with a front end to the newsgroups that
allow a different display and am talking with another user about
that kind of front end. I still have faith in the guys, I hope
that these conversations don't devolve into name calling and the
such. I hate it when friends bicker <s>.

I do trust they are trying to do the best they can but then we get a
decision like this that seems designed to do nothing but piss off
people.
I can never understand why they do things in the way they do and
cause themselves all this ill will.
it's not good for them, and it hasn't really helped anything else
that I can tell

[RBNUBE]

I think RB Forums is using phpBB. I'm pretty sure that this is a
third-party board and probably not something RB is prepared to "fix". I
suppose they could pay the people at http://www.phpBB.com/ to modify it for
them, but somehow I doubt that that will happen.

What do you think needs to be 'fixed'?




-----Original Message-----
From: gettingstarted-***@lists.realsoftware.com
[mailto:gettingstarted-***@lists.realsoftware.com] On Behalf Of Norman
Palardy
Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 5:06 PM
To: Getting Started
Subject: Re: Debate About Mailing Lists: PLEASE REACT !

Post by Bill Marcy
Math,
Have a little faith, the people at REAL are not some faceless
entity, they really do have our best interests at heart. They are
good people doing what they think is best.
Bill

Why would they not ask what people dislike about the forums first and
fix those things where they could ?

_______________________________________________
Unsubscribe: <gettingstarted-***@lists.realsoftware.com>

REAL Software has decided to consolidate this mailing list with the online
Forums. On Monday, February 12, 2007, this mailing list will no longer be
active. We encourage you to continue your REALbasic and REAL SQL Server
discussions on the Forums. If you are not presently a member of the forum,
please sign up today at <http://forums.realsoftware.com>.

[Norman Palardy]

Post by RBNUBE
I think RB Forums is using phpBB. I'm pretty sure that this is a
third-party board and probably not something RB is prepared to
"fix". I
suppose they could pay the people at http://www.phpBB.com/ to
modify it for
them, but somehow I doubt that that will happen.
What do you think needs to be 'fixed'?

The lack of integration with an email notification mechanism when a
new topic is started
The fact you can't even search it if you're offline

there's at least to items

[RBNUBE]

Unfortunately, this list is basically dead. I asked the list where everyone
had gone a few months ago and only received one response. The person asked
if what I had sent was a question. Hmmm...

So, my assumption was that most had already moved to the forums.

I'm not sure about the NUG list. I was extremely busy when I was on it,
but, for some mysterious reason, I stopped receiving NUG e-mails and I was
never able to figure out why. So, in this sense, it's a good thing for me,
I suppose.

I dislike web based forums, but the fact is that you're much more likely to
receive an answer there than here on the beginner listserve. It's also
supported by RB employees, though the only one I can think of at the moment
is Aaron Ballman. I'm sure there are others as well.

For now, I will try the delaresub list and see how it goes. Thanks Mr.
Yeomans.

If needed for any reason, I can also add a listserve through my web server.

Good luck...